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EG4 Wall Mount Pros (Optimal Settings for Optimal Performance and longevity

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SomeJ
Posts: 10
(@somej)
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Joined: 5 months ago

The nature of these lithium based batteries do not provide for a very consistent SOC vs voltage curve like with lead acid batteries.  I have seen some of my batteries report a low SOC while the voltage still looks "high", just like your screen shots. 

While I have not worked specifically with these wall mount units, I would think the BMS would be very similar to the LL units.  When using multiple batteries in a cluster it is good to give the cluster a full cycle every now and then; what I mean by that is take it down to 20'ish% SOC then charge all the way up to 100% SOC in the same day if possible.  This will help to get the BMS of each battery back into sync.   I have my system setup/scripted to do this every 30 days.  I have tried going longer but the SOC drift/variation from battery to battery seems to get even more out of sync and starts to throw off the overall SOC calculations (36 batteries/BMSs involved with this particular setup).

Even with the BMS SOC variation from battery to battery, I would still trust the reported SOC over the reported volts as a basis for actual SOC. 

Here is the charge/discharge curve from one of the 48v-LL battery manuals. The voltage will "level out" through a very wide range of SOC then very quickly spike up or down depending on if you are charging or discharging.  I believe the wall mount units are using a 280ah cell vs the 100ah in the LL units, but the battery/cell chemistry should be the same so the charge/discharge curves should be relevant.

image

Note how the voltage reports higher while charging, and lower while discharging.  This would also throw off any voltage based SOC tracking.

 

J

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(@casinovarock23)
Joined: 2 months ago

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Posts: 1

@somej thanks for sharing your observations. I have a more basic question, how was the set up with the XW Pros with the eg4 wall mount powerpros? Closed loop compatible? Any issues? Any resources you can share for installation?

 

I have the same inverters and am not sure which batteries to get.

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SomeJ
(@somej)
Joined: 5 months ago

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Posts: 10

@casinovarock23 

I actually have the older XW+ units and the batteries are the 48v LL v1 and v2 units with a v2 unit acting as the "cluster" master.  While there was LOTS of trouble getting closed loop coms going with my Insight Facility device, EG4 eventually got a working firmware (this was a little over 1 year ago).  Being that the wall units are newer I would hope EG4 would have closed loop coms with Schneider working properly out of the box.

Since getting closed loop working I have been very happy with the setup overall.  One thing to note is that while I do have closed loop coms working, the "BMS Setup" part of the Insight Facility doesn't work properly for me and actually causes more issues.  The issue could be that I'm using XW+ units which Schneider has pretty much stopped supporting in favor of the XW Pro.  I do have 3x MPPT 100 charge controllers connected to the system and the "BMS Setup" integration for those has not worked properly either.

Since the "BMS Setup" within Insight Facility (I.F) isn't working properly with my setup I am having to manage 95+% charge states via voltage instead of SOC.  I have the latest facility FW and have been waiting for quite some time for a new version with the hopes that it will fix some of the BMS issues.

Pretty much the issues that Im having with the I.F. BMS integration is nothing is properly adhering to SOC settings or will randomly do something based on SOC but not consistently, the MPPT units have a setting to sync their voltage with BMS voltage readings for charging vs using their voltage reading which appears to not work with my system. The BMS regularly has a .5 - 1.5v variance from what the MPPT report which is a bit of an issue when trying to get all 36 batteries fully topped up to 100% SOC (resistance from all the copper involved and the more amps pushed the greater the variance) so I have had to set the bulk/absorb voltage slightly higher than the recommended charge voltage and manually baby sit the 100% SOC top up days (which is something that happens every few weeks).  Even though the I.F. has SOC settings for the inverters I think only the XW Pro units are actually supported, so you might have some luck with that if you are running XW Pro units.  A few years ago Schneider did something with their support department which has made high level trouble shooting a nightmare (the last ticket I put in I was actually teaching the tech new things and never got a resolution other than finally getting a developer acknowledgement that I have found a bug that has been ongoing for almost a year with no resolution) so I have not tried putting in a ticket for this BMS integration issue and have used my home automation system with scripting to help work around the issues.

After getting a working FW from EG4, integration with the I.F. was very straight forward following the instructions in the battery manual.  For me the closed loop BMS integration gets overall SOC readings into the I.F. unit where I can then pull that via modbusTCP into my automation system to then tweak inverter (or charge controller) settings via scripts in somewhat real time.

Feel free to holler if you have any questions or need any help.  Even though the closed loop integration is not fully working as designed for my setup, I am still VERY happy with these EG4 batteries vs my old NiFe battery. I fully believe the issues I am having have with the BMS integration has to do with Schneider and not EG4 at this point. (aside from a high amp reporting issue that I have brought up to EG4 through multiple avenues and have never gotten a response or even an acknowledgement to the issue.)

J

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SomeJ
Posts: 10
(@somej)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago

Here is an example of my system today while it is performing the monthly top up / SOC sync. (using Schneider inverters and charge controllers)

image

My wife is doing some laundry so the amps are all over the place, but you can see that as each BMS "synced up" the reported voltage and SOC spiked very quickly even though the charge amps was going down.  I actually battle this voltage spike vs SOC with my system because the inverters and charge controllers can't properly work with the SOC data even though the system as a whole knows what the SOC is.  For me this is ONLY an issue when the battery cluster is reaching 100% SOC as the inverters and charge controllers can only charge based on voltage levels, not SOC.  The very quick voltage spike will send my charge controllers into float mode even though the SOC is not actually at 100%.

In general use SOC whenever possible. Voltage can be used for the fringe 0-5% and 95-100% SOC situations but it will not be 100% accurate.  For longevity, these cells are best kept at, and cycled daily in the 30-80% SOC range.  If you need that extra power then use the 20-100% range which these batteries are warrantied for, but you could get even longer life out of them using the 30-80% range and you wouldn't be so reliant on tracking the voltage as is fluctuates very little while in that range.

J

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Bluetrader222
Posts: 26
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(@bluetrader222)
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Joined: 5 months ago

SomeJ this is very very useful information and these curves is exactly what I am experiencing 50 to 54 is like bulk of the range 10% to 90%  46 to 50V is range of 10% and 54 to 56.3 is also a range of the upper 10%. The sweet spot is to stay 50 to 54. Thanks again for your post! 

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SomeJ
Posts: 10
(@somej)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago

No problem!!  Glad to help!  Just remember that the voltage while charging will be higher than the voltage while discharging even though the BMS will report the same SOC.  Sounds like you have a good upper charge voltage and lower discharge voltage range. 

Keep in mind charging with higher amps will present a higher voltage vs SOC, and same with discharging amps and lower voltage vs SOC.  If you have a trickle draw at night the voltage will appear higher longer while the SOC drops.

Cheers!

J

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Bluetrader222
Posts: 26
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(@bluetrader222)
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Joined: 5 months ago
image
image

Here are SOC vs Voltage... I was taking the battery down to 46v based on setting one of the EG4 tech guys ..but that is too low. so wanted to see taking the battery down to 50v. So as of now changed the SOC low to 5% and it is depleting down to 5% and will see what the corresponding voltage be. I am getting my 3 battery replacement today so excited to add it to the system as 3 batteries should last me the night. They are charging up to 56v on the high side and that is corresponding to 100%. I want to see to changing that to 90 or 95% max. and low 5% to 10%. Now with third battery I dont think I will get even to 10% by morning. 

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