Suggestion 12000XP and Generator Switching

Same issue with the 18K and the 6000XP:
https://forum.eg4electronics.com/community/postid/12415/

@pawnee posted a video of his "brownout" as well here:
https://forum.eg4electronics.com/community/postid/12748/

Wardo5757 I believe it’s a software issue too. I’m going to order a new voltage regulator for my generator tomorrow to eliminate any questions about my generator. What’s the voltage and Hz on your generator when running? Trying to figure out if the generator is confusing the inverter is why I ask

@pawnee It runs at 241v and 60hz, doesn't fluctuate much from that, Generac does a pretty good job staying in spec.  I was able to get rid of the majority of the initial brownout by turning the charging current from 50amps per inverter to 30amps each and turning off Gen Boost, turning off Gen Boost was recommended by EG4 support. However the blackout after SOC is reached is still there. The inverter opens the contacts long before switching to EPS. Gen Boost is a great feature in theory but this implementation stinks and needs to be fixed.

There's 2 ways to fix this issue: 

   1. When set to UPS the EPS should run 100% of the time. This alone would eliminate any awkward switching issues from any input since it wouldn't be switching what's powering the loads. What's the difference between APL and UPS if the EPS doesn't run 100% of the time in UPS mode (aside from the voltage range)?

   2. Adjust the sequence for gen to batt switching- when SOC calls for charging it should close the dry contacts and power the loads for about 30 seconds, then begin charging the batteries, this will allow the gen to ramp up and get rid of the initial brownout caused by to large of an initial load. When charging is complete it should stop the charging and continue using the gen to power loads for about 30 seconds, then switch to EPS, then open dry contact after a couple seconds or let it run a cool down period of about 2 minutes. 

@wardo5757 

I think you hit the nail on the head. I’m off grid and had to run the generator today because 36 hours of no sun and -5 temperatures. I decided to let it hit the stop voltage and switch to the batteries. Then I manually killed the generator. Not even a blink at the house, so like I’ve been saying for 6 months. It’s got to be a software issue!! I will concede there is a small chance the dirty power from the generator (might) be a factor. 

@pawnee WOW- you're in a harsh environment pawnee!

I think too many people only test the surge functions of these inverters which is a great test but that's all you see on YT these days, even from Signature Solar all of their videos cover surges. Full functionality should be tested and the inverters scored by how well the switch between inputs but I haven't seen one video covering switching. 

I live in a new modern home that draws a lot of electricity, the brownout and blackouts are unacceptable and is not good for sensitive electronics and appliances. It's even more frustrating when you know a simple setting could be tweaked to fix this issue. 

@wardo5757 

I completely understand. I have a rather large house with 2 furnaces and a heat pump plus electrified out buildings. I’ve installed voltage protection on most of the important appliances until we get this figured out 

How exactly does the inverter function? While charging the batteries from a generator is the inverter allowing AC power to pass thru the inverter from the generator to power the loads as priority and then converting the remaining AC from the generator to DC to charge the batteries? Upon generator shutdown, asking the inverter to change to inverting DC to AC to power the loads milliseconds from previously converting AC to DC to charge the batteries seems to be the problem. The chargeVerter solves the problem and allows your inverter to convert DC to AC to power the loads while the generator provides AC to the ChargeVerter to convert the AC to DC to chare the batteries.

Just trying to think this through

I am wondering if it "can't be fixed".  I am NOT an Electonics guru by any means (but I would love to see a flow chart of the power processes for the systems) but I am wondering:

The EPS is used to charge the batteries from AC AC-in - hits battery charger - charges battery.

Are those some electronics used in reverse to convert from DC to AC hence not allowing AC in and out at the same time?  

Again - Maybe this is poor thinking on my part as I don't understand the black magic of the actual electronics.

But if that is the case it would explain the need for switching from one direction to the other.

If this is the case, I guess I will learn to live with it and probably get a chargeverter to keep from destroying my electronic equipment.  But I really WISH that the chargeverter was able to be web monitored along with the inverter.  I do not like adding a piece of equipment that helps solve one problem but eliminates my ability to control my system.  I need remote control of my gen starts.

For example, I manually started my gen yesterday to top off my batteries (while it was slightly above 0) before the cold snap hit today (-20 or so) and being 200 miles away from the system makes having remote control necessary.

However, if my (possibly poor) assumptions above are not correct then why can we not have a programmable gen warmup and cool down and adjust the switching from AC-DC to DC-AC?

JB

@joel-brodeur Good question, I'm not sure how they divert power around either. But I have had smooth transitions when the gen starts and stops and was watching what the inverter was doing. The 2nd option I suggested will fix the issue for sure, I watched it happen a couple of times yesterday when my BMS had charging "forbidden".

I live in North Texas and was prepping for the winter storm we're having today. I had not tested the cycling and charging of the generator since installing it so I changed the setting of Gen Charging to just a few percentages apart to watch how it operated for 8 hours. What I found was Switching from EPS to Gen without charging is seamless so is from Gen to EPS when it's not charging the batteries. It's as seamless as the switching from Lines to Battery. Problem is gens do not like instant full loads which is what the inverter puts on it under normal operating conditions. 

EG4 Can easily adjust the firmware to make the gen transition easier and seamless by not allowing immediate full load in 2 ways.  First by enabling loads in sequence instead of instant or create a ramping up function for charging the batteries and the reverse when charging is complete. The second is to run the EPS 100% of the time. Like Joel pointed out tho, I'm not certain this can be done if it's the EPS that does the DC charging, maybe Eric can chime in to let us know what's possible. 

If this is an accurate schematic for the way EG4s inverters work, running the EPS 100% of the time is not an option, looks like it does all the A/C~D/C conversions. I was under the assumption that the EPS was attached to the D/C bus only, but....

If that is the case, would you be able to even switch from AC supply to DC supply while AC was still being provided?

If so then it would be a matter of software, it appears that for now the software is triggering a gen shut down (open contacts) and then waiting for the AC to drop below threshold before kicking in DC supply (basically re-using the code for loss of DC power).

JB

@joel-brodeur yes, I agree, it appears to not switch until voltage drops (causing a blackout) instead of switching to EPS before opening the gen contacts. -  EG4 can absolutely change the sequence of operation and fix this issue.

@wardo5757 Just out of curiosity, is your AC input range set to UPS or APL?

@joel-brodeur UPS