Suggestion 12000XP and Generator Switching

Thanks @joel-brodeur and @pawnee.   I don't understand how an off-grid inverter can be so bad at gen switching functions but it's almost unusable in its current functionality. It's probably my ignorance but I also don't understand how a fix is taking so long, seems like a couple tweaks of the firmware would fix this, I'm getting down about it... 

This is my first inverter experience, has either of you used an inverter with proper gen switching? I'm not opposed to switching to another maker at this point. 

@wardo5757 My old system did handle gen switching much better.  However, it was a conglomeration of vendors.  My inverter was a Magnasine which I did not feel comfortable with going to lithium.  My MPPT was Midnite Classic, which worked great but again not certain about lithium.  I also had a battery management system and a remote-control board all by Magnum.  I liked the system other than none of the volt reading or SOC matched between hardly anything and remote monitoring would have been overly difficult with Starlink and CGNAT.  I updated my system based on power needs being met by indoor lithium storage and remote connectivity and control.  EG4 was able to provide that.

I agree that the gen start/stop functionality needs some work, specifically:

1 - better transition from gen start and stop to battery.

2 - simply start gen cycle button on the web monitor.

3 - programable warmup and cool down for the gen.

All of which I think would be MAJOR improvements.

Overall, though I am happy with the EG4 lineup.

I am thinking about investing a different gen start/stop system, something that has the above-mentioned items.  I just hate the idea of adding another "hang-on" component to the system that I think should be able to do what I want.  If it can't be done then so be it, just tell me and I will look at some other way of getting what I need.

Just my two cents.  🙂

@joel-brodeur 

I agree 100%, if it can’t be fixed let us know so we can make decisions, but Eric telling me they are still looking at data is simply blowing smoke, I don’t appreciate it much.  

Since this is my first system I don’t know if it’s a problem that all inverters suffer or just EG4, if it is EG4 I will move on to another brand that can get what I think (I could be completely wrong) is a simple operation for an off-grid inverter working properly. What’s so surprising is this issue wasn’t stated in any of the many reviews I watched before buying. 

@eg4eric Hi Eric!  Any update on the gen issue?  Can you give any update on progress towards a firmware update or if y’all have been able to reproduce the issue in the lab?

Just adding another voice to what I believe is the same chorus of problems: my 12000xp struggles with generator switching, though I actually find switching from battery/solar to generator to be the worst.

My typical scenario: running about 6kw on solar + battery heading into the shoulder hours. When I flip on my generator (inverter rated at 9kw running) to the help cover any difference and keep the batteries topped off, the inverter switches from EPS to on grid mode and I get a momentary blackout. Every load power cycles, and the full surge requirement is routed to the generator (gen boost is enabled) which causes it to overload. 

The generator tie in is useless unless I shut off all loads, then introduce the generator, then turn things back on one by one. 

Subscribed for updates.

Eric or anyone from EG4- has there been any progress with a firmware update for this issue?

@jk490 I just posted on another thread that I have given up. Buy a chargverter and it will solve your problems. 

Posted by: @pawnee

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@jk490 I just posted on another thread that I have given up. Buy a chargverter and it will solve your problems. 

@wardo5757 👍

Don't believe I'm entirely off topic, but I was searching for solutions for cleaner generator switching with my Gridboss / Flexboss21 on the forum and came across this and I know out features are similar.  I am also seeing this as a problem but I do have grid available... I may also be waiting for a relevant firmware update but would be willing to call in and work with EG4 if I can help improve the product or help others have a better experience.

I believe I have the GenBoost firmware and the functionality of invertor, battery charge and load management of my Whole Home Generac limited to 8.5kW with the Gridboss has worked phenomenal every time I test it.  The only thing I am seeing power blip when the system switches from invertor to generator. 

I'm assuming the reason for this is that the inverter may not phase matching the generator before switching but I could be wrong.  Seems like it is better sometimes, ranging from a flicker to an all out 500 to 1000ms blackout when the generator relay closes.  For testing, I've tried going to generator in all invertor modes but I would typically be either charging from grid or discharge to grid when a blackout occurs.  If someone finds a setting / firmware that could help with this improve this I would certainly appreciate the input or if EG4 would like me to call in to work on this I would.  I have not given them an opportunity to address this, I was using the forum as a first step to try and learn more about my system.  

Current Relevant Settings:

I am planning to wire in a 10kw westinghouse to an off-grid 12000xp today. I do not have the westinghouse "smartswitch" delivered yet, so I can't use the auto-start/stop dry contact at start/stop voltage setpoints yet.

I'd like to fire up the generator manually, charge for a couple hours, and turn it off manually. Reading above thread, it sounds like there are some possible problems with this? What settings should I double check to enable manual start/stop, and get the batteries topped up this afternoon (is been a very cloudy day today and batteries will not finish on PV today).

Posted by: @dtbaker61

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I am planning to wire in a 10kw westinghouse to an off-grid 12000xp today. I do not have the westinghouse "smartswitch" delivered yet, so I can't use the auto-start/stop dry contact at start/stop voltage setpoints yet.

I'd like to fire up the generator manually, charge for a couple hours, and turn it off manually. Reading above thread, it sounds like there are some possible problems with this? What settings should I double check to enable manual start/stop, and get the batteries topped up this afternoon (is been a very cloudy day today and batteries will not finish on PV today).

This is what I basically do. My generator is connected to the Gen leads on the 12k, and when I need to, I go turn it on and charge. The problem I have that I have not been able to solve (even after support calls) is that the inverter treats the generator as the only power source even while solar and/or battery is still available. So if I need larger appliances to start up on one leg, there's not enough headroom from the generator for the surge, and the inverter won't draw it from the batteries or solar. So it overloads my generator and the whole system momentarily shuts down. We've had to be disciplined about surge awareness when we're running the generator. We should technically have 100A of available power but when the generator is on, it is limited to whatever the generator can provide. 

@dtbaker61 I’d just check your gen charge amps to make sure they aren’t set to high for your generator. Remember they are in DC amps!! I don’t see why you can’t start the generator and then set your start charge just above where your batteries are. It should work fine but I might be missing something.

@dtbaker61 I don't know if hitting " Start Quick Charge" will run the generator or not when off-grid.?. Does anyone know how that works?

@dtbaker61 

I have 6000xp with Gen boost enabled and 110v/220v 32A split phase step up transformer connected to Gen ports. Basically it is seen as generator by the Inverter. (I power the Transformer  by 110v inverter connected to my EV so it acts as generator as needed - that's another story)

If your 12kxp behaves like my 6kxp that might suit your needs.

So here what happens:

When I provide power to gen ports the Inverter seamlessly starts using this power and and charge the battery according to the specs in settings. when the load exceeds the pre-set gen power inverter draws necessary power also from batteries.

When I shut the power to gen ports there is seamless transition to to battery power by inverter.

I might assume if I had just simple 220v split phase generator the behavior would be exactly the same - therefore your approach would work

I am not interested in automating the gen start/stop as my 'generator' is not automated. 

I do use gen dry contacts to connect the system to the grid if battery is too low tested and it works, yet the dry contacts change status only when the voltage/SoC passes the pre-set thresholds.

The EG4 inverter logic does not work like I initially expected e.g.:

"IF SoC/Volt < of gen start SoC/Volt THEN  contacts are ON and "IF SoC/Volt > of gen start SoC/Volt THEN  contacts are OFF"

That is is my observation which is supported by inverter behavior.

Since it fits my purpose I can leave with it, Yet if I wanted to automate the Gen start/stop and relevant behavior - that is the Subject issue.

Brgds

K